Age of the Sage...gone? or personal taste?

Have you noticed some people really appreciate wise Sage advice. Could it be personality style? Maybe for those who feel they are journeying--something like Frodo in Lord of the Rings--they imagine others are down the road a bit ahead of them, and maybe those folks (like sages) can see around the bend, and be a guide.

Other people scoff at Sage information giving as arrogant. Thinking, "It's all personal perspective. No one can't really speak into my life, and know–or even assume to know–what could be helpful for me. "Sage authority" is quite suspect for them.

Where do you line up? Do you value Sage wisdom?

If you welcome it, and could ask for any sage advice at all, knowing there would be no judgement pointed toward you, what would you ask?

If you have located God...

If you have located God, whether in experience or locale, mode or method, be assured it cannot be the Divine. God is not fully known, or knowable. For God is no-thing, no object, no sensation, no perception that we should confuse with that with the real "him" (Spirit). We know in part. We glimpse the light trails. Both cannot be true that he can be everywhere and Spirit, and also so very graspable in the ways we usually think so. That is why the Logos of God is so helpful. (Christians call him Jesus. God in flesh.) But God, worshiped in spirit and truth, the Eternal, is always with us, always Other, always approachable, and always incomprehensible, immeasurable. Unpinned down, except in our delusions.

Discovering/re-discovering God-Continuing Theology

Resistance lives on the fringe of growth, near our periphery. When we have to reconsider what we’ve known, and adjust to realities bigger than what we first realized. God is bigger…always bigger than we figure on. Just when we get a grip on our theology, he will stretch us further. The bounds of his mission, his grace, his love, and his “Otherness” pushes us further on, into this unknown, and really unknowing.

"Pride" the sermon lesson that seems like it's for "other people"

Jesus shared this parable:
Luke 18:9-14

The Parable of the Pharisee and Tax Collector -
18:9 Jesus also told this parable to some who were confident that they were righteous and looked down on everyone else. 18:10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed about himself like this: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people: extortionists, unrighteous people, adulterers – or even like this tax collector. 18:12 I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of everything I get.’ 18:13 The tax collector, however, stood far off and would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, be merciful to me, sinner that I am!’ 18:14 I tell you that this man went down to his home justified rather than the Pharisee. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

This is an interesting parable. When we place ourselves in it and image we are the Pharisee, we would think, "I'm not really all that bad." If we are the tax collector." We would think, "Lord, I need you." Either way we stand to get it wrong. But why?

This parable by centrifugal force pops us back out of the parable to examen our true motives and attitudes. In truth, Pride is an ingrained human trait, a sickness, of which we are blind to. When when hear stories about it, it's usually heard as a message for "the other guy". Sure, we might be repentant, and ask God for mercy, but as we become self-satisfied with this gesture, we are back where we started in a Pharisaical mindset, thinking nothing much is wrong with us.

We bounce back and forth like this, between the two, in a polemic dynamic, though sometimes not realizing it. What might we do about it? We can start by realizing our utter dependency on grace. What a long way we have to go.

Jesus was above all things, humble. This was his chief character trait. This is quite shocking. Why would GOD have to be humble? He shouldn't have to be. He doesn't have to be. This truly is the way of God. We don't know this way, or even understand it. It's totally against our nature, and our ingraining.

The the tiny and powerful book by Andrew Murray, "Humility: The Journey Toward Holiness" shows the ministry and example of Jesus in an amazing way I never considered before.

poisoned God language

Christians sometimes tend to push their agendas. People with bad experiences with Christians and church have poisoned views of church, religion, Christians, and God. But really we all long for love, beauty, truth, justice. In our attempts to dialogue, I contend we should builds bridges, and realize our common longings, not pick at other's wounds, or pound them with apologetics.

Here is some interesting dialogue I encountered.
Weigh in with your thoughts.

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from x:
lisa—you’re absolutely correct that [certain] reality is in the eye of the beholder. Seeing a perfect rose one day might impress upon me the beauty of the world at large one day and the next depress me because of the shallowness of what is accepted as “beauty”.

I don’t read Craig as being any less insistent upon his version of reality than anyone else, but perhaps I’m wrong. Each of us experiences the world and crafts our own reality from it. The dinner I just ate was “okay” to me but “great” to my husband. These are, I suppose, competing versions of reality and neither of us will be able to change the other’s mind. There may be no “neutral standpoint”, but that doesn’t mean we can’t discuss our experiences and both come away richer for it.

I’m not sure that science produces elitism any more than any other discipline (talk to any theologian, philosopher, or historian—or their armchair varieties). I’m not certain that science & religion are so at odds, I just think they describe vastly different matters. Just as philosophical logic is ill-suited to maths, mathematical logic is ill-suited to philosophy. Religion and science are similarly compatible but separate. I think a scientific approach to the Divine is idiotic—and a religious approach to science is criminal.

So we’re left with experiences. My experience of the Church of my parents is one of oppression, violence, and hatred. I’ve met wonderful people whose experience of that same religion is uplifting, peaceful, and holy. I’m baffled by that, but I respect it. My experience of atheism has been a community of disaffected ex-religionists who, in community, find solace, comfort, and safety away from the violence that religion has done to us.

Personally, I think it’s irresponsible of AA to preach God as a way to get over addiction. That’s not getting over addiction, that’s replacing a physically damaging addiction with a mentally damaging one.

I agree that there probably isn’t an “absolute truth” or definite answer to life, the universe, and everything (unless it’s 42), but I also think that you can touch truth, beauty, and perfection to know it exists. Sometimes, knowing that Justice is out there is the only thing that gives me hope. But I don’t pray to her, or worship her. I find it difficult to believe that any god needs my worship and adoration, or cares enough about my puny human problems to intercede & change the universe so that I’m happy. I think meditation/prayer are useful tools for me to get a grip on my own psyche and that ritual serves a need for routine. Just about every other aspect of religion (besides community) seems inherently dangerous, disingenuous, and, for want of a better word, evil.

26Craig // Nov 2, 2008 at 8:51 pm

x, it’s actually “47″.

But other than that, I agree completely.

27lisa // Nov 3, 2008 at 6:29 am

I just loved your post x. I totally agree with your “touch truth” sentence.

I’m surprised that you say that your atheist friends are made up of people who are just people who been hurt by religion. I should say I’m not surprised, too. I’ve been hurt by Christians too, and churches. Not good ones, though. Problem ones. It is a broken world. Free choice = potential problems, but also opportunity to do good freely as well. It so sad when people fail the God they supposedly love. It does much damage, I agree very much.

I guess to me it just seems like an emotional reason to not believe in God, not a very logical one, though the logical reason I guess get thought of later. I thought your group would be more thoughtful, coming from a more neutral spot. That’s so sad to hear, and my heart goes out to you and your friends. That totally sucks. If I had the chance I would love to speak to those who hurt you and tell them a few things.

I’m so sorry those things happened. They did the opposite of Love. In a community of love, those things are fought against. I experience the best and closest, most beautiful friendship you could imagine. My family was screwed up, but now I get to experience true Love, and I can tell you it’s very life changing. It’s not based on a rejection of another group for bonding and solace though. I truly hope you can find healing for the evils done against you.

Have you forgiven them?

28
x // Nov 3, 2008 at 3:20 pm

I guess I wouldn’t say that my atheist group is “just” people hurt by religion but that, having been hurt by religion, these people left it. My husband, as I often say, is the most a-theistic person I know, having been raised in an environment that never mentioned God. He’s also one of the most well-adjusted when it comes to religion. But he has no need of the atheist community like I do.

The apology on behalf religionists who cause injury is something that I come across rather frequently and I respect the place from which it comes, but I have to say that I find it rather disingenuous, since I would bet money that the people who apologize participate in the same hurtful actions that those who should apologize do. And as a sister once told me, an apology means nothing if there is intent to do it again.

Forgiveness is a very religious concept; one of many I’m trying to get out of my psyche. I can say that they acted in the way that they thought was right and that, when they stand before their God in the Court of their Heaven, they will have nothing to answer for. This does not make my wounds any shallower, but it helps me in my daily interactions with those who caused them.

Religion as a thing of beauty can exist only in the mind of one of its adherents. As soon as it enters two minds, its beauty is destroyed and it seeks only to cause pain. Jesus once said that he is there, wherever two or more are gathered. I think the real Truth of religion is that the Divine is only there in the silence of our hearts—in Beauty, in Love, and in Truth. But never collectively.

29lisa // Nov 3, 2008 at 6:57 pm

Well, x, you bring up an interesting point, and I also think a contradiction.

You said, “I think the real Truth of religion is that the Divine is only there in the silence of our hearts—in Beauty, in Love, and in Truth. But never collectively.” You also spoke of Justice in a similar way earlier. I think you are speaking of ideals. Yes? I think that you understand these to be something that you consider to be real, not fictitious. Yes? Things to give hope, to aspire to, and these things actually point “off the map.” Really they are not just found within. For instance, if you extinguished human life and creation, in an instance, Beauty and Truth and Justice and Love would not cease to be real.

Many people consider this to be spiritual language for that reason. If these things are beyond us, and infinite, perfection, and not fictitious, what are we really speaking of?

To know of these things and then to box them down as only infinite, and not powerful enough to be both infinite and also personal, smacks as ironical.

Beside that, I think people do share these ideals between others, not just in the silence of their hearts, but also within them as well. Part of loving someone can involve a deep shared love for these things and increased intimacy that grows between the two. My experience reflects the unity of community toward the divine, I believe, enacting the Trinity, in fact, if done properly.

To forgive really only means to cancel a debt. I’m not sure I understand why you think it is religious. Do you think people should not forgive each other? people should not apologize or offer others forgiveness for wrongs? Maybe you could unpack that for me, I guess I don’t understand your take on that one. I think, “Why carry a grudge? It’s like carrying around poison, no? Forgiving never validates an offense, but it does release the victim from more pain.”

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There is a lot of hurt out there. christians and church has done a bunch of it, too I've heard the pain first hand. What are ways we can reach people with God's love, in ways that really matter?

Brief insights from the desert

Reading the desert Abbas and Ammas I've learned something profound, that the desolation of our deserts illicit from within anything that which God needs to purify. Here many battled demons. They ate little. They owned nothing. They lived alone.

These people would seek the empty places searching for wisdom and union with God. They as saints would find it, not easily. Through prioritizing, renunciation of the world and its values, obedience to God and their spiritual guides they became revered. They had purity in heart, simplicity, and a true centrality of a life devoted in prayer.

I don't suggest we transform into ascetics, but giving heed to what the desert can call out of us will change us into something much better. It may refine us quite well into single-minded, unencumbered devotees of the Savior. It seems being stripped down to only us and God draws out our dependency to God in ways we cannot know otherwise; in ways where we cannot so easily hide, among our things and habits and self-aggrandizing obligations.

Perhaps this is why -silent retreats and prayer retreats- are gaining in popularity and priority, and perhaps we'd do well to make way for one, at least a mini one.

Emerging Christianity and back to school

Are we ever done learning and growing?
It can not be!

Our dogma--beliefs-- are never really (whether we are aware of it or not) fully explored, or vetted.

If we feel so certain we have come to a good spot, then either our eyes are closed and our ears are plugged, or we have a bumpy road ahead, perhaps even a crisis of faith to traverse around the bend.

God pulls our hand into deeper water where we cannot touch bottom and must try to swim,(doggie paddle) and then when we think we are so good at swimming, he will show us how to give up and float. It was, in fact never about swimming. Our energies fail-they are suppose to-and he alone can rescue us. Our energies will fail us and he will be right there being God, should we let him, and become truly mature, in any real way.

We can always go back to school. Many Christians are dropouts, but I really believe in life-long learning!

A Joy to be With

Tony Snow died at age 53 a few days ago. One of the things I read that was both inspiring and memorable was that his colleagues said he was a joy to work with, even when his was ill.

It made me wonder if Christians you know are like this? Do people in general think of Christians this way? According to Dan Kimball, in general, no. There are a bunch of adjectives--most of them are really negative--and "joy" doesn't make the list.

If I went to interview the colleagues of first fifty people to read this, would they say you were a "joy to work with". Would someone say of me? (I hope so. Yikes.)

Joy can be the endangered specie character quality in our day and in our culture, and with the luxuries we've come to have as ordinary, it is a bit odd. I can begin to figure out, and elaborate on all the reasons why this is so, but if we can access more joy and express more joy, and be more of a joy to be with, like Tony Snow was in his short life, then how nice!

My Rescuer

So, a man was on a ship and the captain grabbed him as they were passing another ship and he said, "I have to show you a wonderful man. There, he is, the most honorable, wonderful man I know." And the man said, "Why do you say that?" And the captain said, "One night my ship was sinking and this man and his ship were nearby, and this captain jumped in with no regard for his own life and saved me. Now every time I see this man, I make sure I find whoever and I point out my rescuer, the one I owe my life to."

I heard a version of this story on Sunday, and how I should point out my Rescuer Jesus, and it made me think. I suppose I don't much think about Jesus in the term "Rescuer". That is an urgent term. Maybe urgent isn't an adjective I distinguish with my walk with Jesus. I suppose I would encounter people differently if I bore this story in mind.

It is not too old fashioned to remember we are rescued from ourselves, our sin, the maladies of our culture, our future alone without the glory and goodness of God, without the precious Rescuer of our soul - Jesus Christ. Does the pride of thinking "Rescuer" is over the top back us down from this simple and humble following path of disciple in this way?

Each day, rescue us, Lord Jesus!

Anger: Car horn or warning light

Anger is normal and not unspiritual. It is an expression of hurt, frustration, or fear. An angry person suffers from one, or more of those three things, which is a rather sad thing. Angry people are hurting people. Do you struggle with anger? If so, you have pain you need to deal with. I have pain I need to deal with, so I know how you feel. Part of writing this is part of my healing process.

Anger, though a reasonable feeling, makes us unreasonable as we hang on to it. We get unreasonable very quickly. Anger ferments and becomes a poison and gets ugly and hateful. (We find out we’re indeed sinners.) Acknowledging the reasonable feelings behind anger (hurt, fear, or frustration), and giving anger up sets us free–from the poison anger becomes to us, and the consequences of hurting others by vomiting this poison out in some way.

Maybe we have felt our feelings are inappropriate or unchristian. Feelings themselves are not right or wrong, just like knives in a kitchen are not in themselves wrong or unsafe. It is simply how knives are used that is appropriate or inappropriate, safe or unsafe. Using feelings incorrectly is very unsafe. Using knives incorrectly is unsafe. Chopping vegetables for soup carefully on a cutting board–good. Chucking a butcher knife at your husband–bad. Angry words and deeds are the same way.

Anger, like dairy products, spoil and become useless–so please, don’t let it stink up and ruin your life. When you feel anger rear it’s head, locate its source: Are you hurt, frustrated, or fearful? And why? Be honest with yourself, and grow from your findings. Then, let your anger ease. Give it to God. Lay it at his feet. It’s too much for you to bear and you weren’t meant to carry that burden. Life is painful enough. We really don’t need to make it harder on ourselves. Abandoning our anger quickly will spare us pain and give us more freedom to forgive, love, and be loved.